Juan Viejo2

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Posts by Juan Viejo2

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  140

  Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

  by Jeremy C in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

  last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

  one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Jeremy C - a most excellent post and good followups. Check your PMs...

  JV
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  39

  on the subject of elders reading this message board

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard.

  yet another contradiction to throw in the basket.

  didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts?

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  Juan Viejo2

  Geez, Steve. I'm not sure what I did or said that indicated that I was looking to "out" anyone. The original question was whether elders and upper echelon members of the Watchtower Society were really looking at this and other ex-JW websites. My original answer was a soft-counter to CaptKirk's confusion as to whether that could really be determined by any particular evidence. I offered my analytics to show that there is some plausible evidence that some at Brooklyn, Patterson, Walkill, and foreign branch offices were checking us out based on concentrated visits to my site (a rather non-descript performer compared to some others in the ex-JW category) by logins from locations near Watchtower Society facilities.

  That's all I was trying to offer. Where do you get the idea that I am trying to out anyone? Did I not state clearly that I could not determine exact addresses or names of visitors? I do not typically announce my site stats. I do not run sidebar widgets that state "You are visitor 401 today!". That is not what my sites are about. I don't care if one person shows, or 100,001 visitors hit the site. If my sites help anyone, in or out of the organization, that's all I care about.

  You write:

  "How do you help them by exposing them to others at those sites who are not doing it for those reasons? Your confident crowing tells me you don't have much regard for people's confidentiality. I would have thought that the responsibility of running a forum entails repsect for people's anonymity and confidentiality - unless they have clearly breached the forum's rules. I know that I would hate to be an active JW acessing your forum - because I'd worry that you'd expose me to others who could dientify me and 'turn me in'."

  Why would you say such a thing? I have no interest in outing anyone. Ask any of the many members of this forum who have contributed articles to my site whether I have any interest in "outing them." I take every precaution to preserve their privacy, and many here can attest to that. Yes, I have named some of my article contributors, but only with their total concurrence and expressed permission. Most of them have even made their names public here at JWN - and on other similar sites. But anyone trying to preserve their anonymity can come and submit an article or comment to my sites with complete confidence.

  If, while reviewing my analytics, do I try to determine who exactly is logging in? NO! Emphatically NO! What I want to know is what articles they read and how long they stayed on my site. I don't care about who they are - I want to know what they read. If they found something interesting to read on my site, I'd like to know about that.

  In fact I have actually been contacted by an elder in the greater NYC area. I published an article written by him, and a later one by one of his sons. Both are quite extensive and revealing, but I would like to see if you can figure out who he is, or where he lives. from the articles I've published. It's impossible. He wrote to me, as did his son, because they knew that they could write to me and feel confident that their real identities would be protected. Here are the links to the original articles:

  http://ex-jw.com/elder-shares-honest-opinions

  http://ex-jw.com/elder-reveals-his-secret

  Those articles were later discussed here on JWN:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/182302/1/An-Elder-wrote-anomously

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/205347/1/Elder-Just-Told-His-Son-I-Am-Sick-Of-This-Religion-And-Reveals-His-Secret

  Although I have not heard from "Shadow Elder" in recent months, and have no idea what his current status might be, there is no indication that those two articles may have outed him before he was ready to go.

  Likewise with my articles about the scandal and federal court case going on in Menlo Park, CA USA. I have kept the identities of the original tipster and all of my contacts in and around that area absolutely confidential. I was told that I was one of the first ex-JW webmasters they contacted, because they felt comfortable that I would keep their identities totally confidential. And yes, I know the names of some of them, but you won't get those names from me or from my website. Only those names that are publicly available in public domain court documents have been revealed. For that reason, I get four or five anonymous phone calls and email contacts each month from some who are very close to and even from within that Kingdom Hall. They come to me because they want to share their thoughts, let me know how they are feeling, and what is really going on within the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall. But I don't ask their identities. I also purge all email and contact form submissions after taking penciled notes, so if my computer was siezed, there wouldn't be anything on the hard drives that could be recovered - and even though most emails I get are sent from "throw-away" mail boxes.

  So Steve2, your identity would be safe with me as long as you wished it. I have no interest in outing anyone, only to provide a website where they can feel free to come and submit their articles and make their comments.

  I'm not sure why you seem to want to attack me and suggest that I am misstating facts, or somehow attempting to "out anyone." I'm not sure what you are trying to prove about my motives in all of this. I try to be a very good forum member and website editor in all regards - but for some reason you seem to want to question my motives. What are your motives in doing so?

  I am just a simple bandido hiding out in central Oregon, that is all...

  JV
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  39

  on the subject of elders reading this message board

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard.

  yet another contradiction to throw in the basket.

  didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts?

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  Juan Viejo2

  Steve2 - Were you unable to see the screen grabs of my analytics maps?

  On one point you are right: I could not take my simple analytics reports into court and swear under oath that I could prove that a large number of visitors to my websites are elders or located at Bethel. IP addresses only show approximate locations in ranges, not by specific addresses and no personal names can be identified with the tools I use. I'm sure the government could tell you what room in what house an email was sent from, but I do not have that capability.

  The screen grabs I presented only show trends for a few hours, typically for the last 150 visitors to my site. If I click on one of those buttons in the middle graphic, the computer will give me the IP address, the login/logout times, and the last article viewed. It tells me the city it is in.

  When I see Brooklyn, Walkill, Patterson over and over again, that may not be proof, but I'd say it's a strong clue that people at the WT offices are viewing my site. In foreign countries, when I see visitors from cities with WT branch offices, I feel that I can assume that someone in or near that office is hitting my home page.

  Because I don't have access to JWN's or Freeminds.org's analytics, I have no idea what geographic points they may be getting a large number of hits from. Theirs may be entirely different, but I doubt it. Maybe Randy and Simon could comment on this.

  So chalk it up to "faith." Analytics are an excellent tool and they tell you a lot about how your site is performing, what articles are most popular, how long people stay on your site, and approximately where they are coming from. But they don't give me a name, a face, or a motive.

  For that reason, and because I'm sorry I decided to share that information with the forum, I will concede to you and your legalistic view, Steve, and leave it at that and go to bed.

  I'll let the rest of the forum viewers look at the small amount of evidence I've provided and decide for themselves if I'm just full of my own BullS###.

  JV
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  39

  on the subject of elders reading this message board

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard.

  yet another contradiction to throw in the basket.

  didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts?

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  Juan Viejo2

  Cptkirk - I have to respectfully disagree with you. I know that New York / Brooklyn / Patterson-Walkill are checking in on my website at Ex-JW.com.

  Although my site gets a lot of hits, it probably does not even rank in the top ten of ex JW discussion sites. I'm sure that JWN and Freeminds have as many hits in one hour as I get in a week. How do I know? Google Analytics and other analytic programs that I run for that site. Thanks to those excellent tools I can see where my readers are loggin in from, and New York state is #2 after California. I know it's not any of my family logging in to boost the numbers. What I have left are either not interested in JW issues or they live in Arkansas and Colorado. I live in Oregon.

  Google Analytics allows me to not only see the number of hits from New York, but also New York City. Within New York City, I can burrow down into the buroughs and guess what? Brooklyn is #1. So in the entire world, Brooklyn may be the number one city that logs into my website each week. I really doubt that it is the rank & file in that community that are creating this flow of traffic. My guess is that at least a dozen or more Bethelites log in to my site every single day.

  I think a majority of my other world-wide vistors are also elders and MS. In some of the more remote countries either branch offices or missionaries might be checking out the site from time to time.

  Here are screen captures from two of my analytic programs that can demonstrate what I mean:

  

  

  

  On the world map dark green represents heavy daily usage. Light green indicated lighter usage. The pale yellow indicated NO usage.

  On the USA map, each pin represents a unique visitor. Not all pins can be shown because of limitations of the program. But you can see from where the pins bunch up, that the bulk of that days visits came from the US northeast, primarily New York.

  The orange dots on the NY state map shows where visits came from. For those familiar with that state, you can see that number of hits came from the metro NYC area and also from further upstate where Patterson and Walkill are located.

  I'm sure that Randy Watters and Simon (JWN) run their own set of analytics that would have similar results. My site gets a lot of world-wide hits because I provide an automated translator system that makes it easy for non-English speakers to make some sense of the articles.

  So take a close look at that last graphic. See that big huge bubble at the lower edge. That's New York and Brooklyn. I leave it to you to decide if that is signifcant or not.

  Sorry, I've just set up analytics for InsidetheWatchtower.com, so there are not enough results yet to determine trends for that site.

  JV
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  39

  on the subject of elders reading this message board

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard.

  yet another contradiction to throw in the basket.

  didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts?

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  Juan Viejo2

  I think a few elders and members of the R&F may come here to actually know more about their own religion. You won't find this level of discussion and insightful writing anywhere near a Kingdom Hall or from a WT publication.

  There are adults exchanging ideas and facts here. JWs can't do that at the KH or with JWs who aren't also searching. When I was a mid-teen I was always looking for some adult JW who would be willing to really sit down and get dirty with me. I wanted to learn. I had a thirst for knowledge. My father did not have the intellectual capacity to retain or understand the deeper things the WT taught. My mom was much brighter and could understand concepts far better, but she was more about service and helping the old ladies at the KH run their errands.

  On two occasions I actually had deep conversations with an older JW brother. Both times I came away with far more doubts about the Watchtower.

  I really believe there are many elders who come here to get a broader knowledge. I totally agree with Jean-Luc that some of them may never be able to leave the WT, but still want to know the truth about the mess they're in.

  JV
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  19

  Convention talks on education?

  by Quandry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yikes...at work next week i will be spending an entire day in a room with a young jw woman.

  (i work at an elementary school and we will be doing photocopying and other assorted things).

  this young woman is a gung-ho witness but she is going to be going to college.

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  Juan Viejo2

  FYI - The same day this thread started, I got a great article submission on this very subjectefrom Mad Sweeney. I ultimately split it into two articles.

  Sweeney does his usual yeoman job on the subject. How anyone can read this or that article and not wonder what the Watchtower is smoking, must be insane. Even more indefensible are the JWs themselves. Are they really that stupid? But thousands were and I know quite a few of them personally - including myself.

  I graduated from high school with a very high grade point average. On the other hand, straight A's and an F (that's a great story for another time), don't do you much good if your parents don't have the money or the will to send you to college. Most of my classes in HS were non-college prep courses, but I got in language, advanced English, was high in math. But no college prep. I actually won a scholarship, enough to pay for my first semester of Junior College. So I did go on my own dime for part of the first year.

  My dad sent mixed messages. "John, you can live at home as long as you are going to school. But if you leave school and turn 18, you're on your own and will need to find your own place." So does that mean that I should, or should not, go to college?

  I actually lived within a short bus drive to a University of California campus (Riverside), and in those days tuition was free (if you could qualify). All I had to do was come up with money for books and materials. What a sad waste of the sharp brain I had at that time. Now look at me - just a grubby old bandido...

  Anyway, here are the links to Sweeney's two part essay on JWs and Education:

  http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/a-young-mans-decision/

  http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/the-watchtower-jehovah%E2%80%99s-witnesses-and-education/

  And for those of you who may have missed it, be sure to read Terry's article as well, adapted from his post here:

  http://insidethewatchtower.com/history/theres-never-any-pony/

  I'm sure both would like to read your comments...

  JV
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  54

  Stop making the BINARY error of Jehovah's Witness theology

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  true or false.. black or white.. life or death.. .

  the above are binary.

  this or that.. computing is based on binary choices.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Geez, Terry - you are on a roll. Great post as always!

  JV
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  172

  The Polarizing of America: Rep. Michele Bachmann wins Iowa Straw Poll

  by darthfader in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://news.yahoo.com/bachmann-wins-gop-2012-test-vote-224544660.html.

  minnesota rep. michele bachmann won a test vote of iowans on saturday, a show of strength five months before the state's caucuses kick off the gop presidential nominating season.. the result is the first indication of what iowans think of the field of republicans competing for the chance to challenge president barack obama next fall.

  but it's hardly predictive of who will win the winter iowa contest, much less the party nod or the white house.. well... there goes the neighborhood....

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  Juan Viejo2

  Terry,

  Excellent observation and the treadmill was a great analogy. More importantly, you are absolutely accurate in your observation.

  Republicans in every election accuse the Democrats of being spenders, and yet every Republican administration has outspent its Democratic controlled predessor.

  Republicans always talk about not increasing taxes, and yet the effective tax rates tend to be higher AFTER the Republicans leave office.

  The Democrats accuse the Republicans of being "warmongers," and yet the four most expensive wars with the greatest loss of life in the 20th century were authorized by Democrats: Wilson (WW1), Franklin Roosevelt (WW2), Harry Truman (Korea), and John Kennedy along with Lyndon Johnson (Viet Nam).

  Obama complains that Dubya entered into two wars without paying for them for the benefit of multi-billionaire defense contractors (using off ledger budget entries). Lyndon Johnson kept military contractors busy billionaires during the Viet Nam war, while promoting his "guns and butter" approach to the budgets he approved.

  I'm not saying that what any of theses presidents and their administrations did was wrong. World War 1, Korea, and Viet Nam might have been ill-advised adventures, but World War 2? I'm glad that Roosevelt fought Republican opposition and committed the nation whole-heartedly to that fight.

  So Terry, you are right on the mark. As citizens all we have is one vote and then we have to go along with the ride. But the direction of that ride is always in the same direction, no matter who is in charge.

  JV
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  23

  Identifying God and true religion

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is no doctrine required for kindness.. you can't get it "wrong".

  there is no judgement.. there is nothing to memorize when putting your hand out to a suffering person.

  the human touch on a fevered brow and the comforting squeeze of the hand is irrefutable.. you don't have to graduate from a seminary to offer a smile and ask somebody how they are---how they really are.. there are no grounds for debate or rebuttal in visiting the ill, the dying, the widowed or the orphaned.. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  Terry, did you get my PM?
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  23

  Jehovah's Witnesses: A family conversion

  by discreetslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  another piece on the joys of witnesshood.. http://heraldsun.com/bookmark/14860998/article-jehovah%27s+witnesses%3a+a+family+conversion#.tj2jip7llug.

  unky punk is this swarm potential?.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Blonde, blue-eyed, ethnically northern European sheep living in North Carolina.

  Blonde, blue-eyed, ethnically northern European idiots wasting their lives believing in fairy tales in North Carolina.

  JV